29-03-2009 Dragon XC 1 - Llandegla North Wales.
Hollie Bettles 3rd (youths)
Jack Peterson 4th (vets)
Lloyd Bettles 5th (Masters)
Full Results
both Jack and Lloyd held 2nd at times in very competitive fields but lost out on the last laps
Sunday, March 29
Wednesday, March 25
NCRA Handicap spring series 2009 (5 Rounds)
Race 5 - Southwick ---- RESULTS
The final round of the series. Full Photo Gallery here
BCF report here.
Same group spacing, Troy and Steve and Graham were off first and joined by Brownie's group on the road. By Lap 3 the fast Gregs group caught Jacks group of 12 up and then it all joined together without the scratch. Strangely no-one tried anything, the wind meant only the brave could, but it worked out well as scratch didn't show, leaving a mass uphill sprint.
Jack couldn't quite get there this time, coming in 11th with Brownie close behind in 21st just pipping Troy next. Steve valliantly stopped to help a crashed rider, and came in 6 mins down. while Graham had a bizare puncture with a safety pin see HERE.
A good group ending end to a great series, bring on the next one.
OVERALL 5 RACE SERIES RESULTS HERE
Race 4 - Old - Lamport
4th Jack Peterson...pretty clearly ;-)
Paul Brown
Troy Rollason
Graham Dickens
Steve
Bob ...ill
BCF Report and Photos More Race 4 Photos
Jacks Race:
With the Dragon XC race in Wales the next day I fully intended to try and minimise effort for this race. Our starting group was big enough to hide in and for most of the time this plan worked. A few efforts every lap to make sure I cornered near the front, some of those guys just corner like grannies at times. Then we caught Troy and Graham on the last lap, just as the 3 fast guys joined us. Luckily they didnt then try and escape and the mass sprint was on.
Initially i wasn't bothered, the roads where covered in crap, which has wrecked my shades and i could hardly see. But as the fast run-in unfolded, it turned out quite safe and it opened up well. I kicked, perhaps just a touch too late and put a few lengths into the "pack" but had let the 3 big hitters get a few ahead. 4th and well chuffed and yes it was the easiest of the 4 so far, bizzare. 10th in the series now as well.
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Race 3 - Gt Gidding
Results
14 Gregg Payne Rockingham Forest Wheelers
17 Jack Peterson Numplumz Mountain Bikers
22 Troy Rollason Numplumz Mountain Bikers
23 Graham Dickens Numplumz Mountain Bikers
25 Bob Mitchell Numplumz Mountain Bikers
26 Ian Dick Rockingham Forest Wheelers
31 Garry Townsend (Mine and Troy's mate) MI Racing
36 Scott McCann Rockingham Forest Wheelers
Full results
4th Jack Peterson...pretty clearly ;-)
Paul Brown
Troy Rollason
Graham Dickens
Steve
Bob ...ill
BCF Report and Photos More Race 4 Photos
Jacks Race:
With the Dragon XC race in Wales the next day I fully intended to try and minimise effort for this race. Our starting group was big enough to hide in and for most of the time this plan worked. A few efforts every lap to make sure I cornered near the front, some of those guys just corner like grannies at times. Then we caught Troy and Graham on the last lap, just as the 3 fast guys joined us. Luckily they didnt then try and escape and the mass sprint was on.
Initially i wasn't bothered, the roads where covered in crap, which has wrecked my shades and i could hardly see. But as the fast run-in unfolded, it turned out quite safe and it opened up well. I kicked, perhaps just a touch too late and put a few lengths into the "pack" but had let the 3 big hitters get a few ahead. 4th and well chuffed and yes it was the easiest of the 4 so far, bizzare. 10th in the series now as well.
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Race 3 - Gt Gidding
Results
14 Gregg Payne Rockingham Forest Wheelers
17 Jack Peterson Numplumz Mountain Bikers
22 Troy Rollason Numplumz Mountain Bikers
23 Graham Dickens Numplumz Mountain Bikers
25 Bob Mitchell Numplumz Mountain Bikers
26 Ian Dick Rockingham Forest Wheelers
31 Garry Townsend (Mine and Troy's mate) MI Racing
36 Scott McCann Rockingham Forest Wheelers
Full results
Troys race
3rd race and a beautiful days racing ahead...... met JP and Hollie en-route and then Dave palmer and Gregg too just outside Thrapston.....should have been about 17 ish miles to gt gidding and all together less than last weeks 23m to warm up, and it was a nice day so hay ho.
Arrived at gt gidding only to be told sorry lads next village along to sign on....Glatton! still not bothered its not too far...... (19m)
what we didn't know was that the start was in the original location and back up to gidding so once race kit was donned off we trotted..quick warm up(4m) and team pic...nice one brownie....then BANG
race was on....Gra and myself were in the 6.5 min group so all good today, or so we thought.....our group yet again didi not work very well at all and spent the first 2/3 miles in 1 long line and no through and off.....spose that's normal ish.
anyway gra and i got things going and a couple of others started working too and pretty uneventfull till lap 2 when we lost half of our group. It was at this point No 33 was showing his true colours! he would work his way to the front and then shout change direction.....this went on for a while....and oh how he some verbal...Gra and me had a go but to no avail.
End of lap 2 and scratch caught us and we tagged on for a bit and as usual pumped out the back....my bpm went to 101% and 193 just keeping with them up the hill to gidding phew
Lap 3 and after a bit of solo riding with J.P we joined our group again til the last hil again as poor old Graham's chain came off....nooooo he managed to put it back on and carried on...good effort mate.....then jp bolted and so did no 33 ....bob pushed after him and so did gra and me..........no way....no way is that 33 git beating me to the finish so last corner and me m bob and gra caught him and sped to the finish for a photo head down troy win(22nd overall) No no 33 anywhere....yay (30m)
back for tea and cakes and ride home 3m them 19 miles
Long but good day out 73 miles and buzzin
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Race 2 - Old Lamport
On the Old-Lamport course in bright but very windy conditions. Brownie, Graham and Steve above chased down Troy who was given some time on them. The Fast (scratch) guys blew through the field using their power to leave samll groups all over the course. Brownie managed to hang on and grabbed a good finish again, while the rest of us trailed in behind. A tough day out there. Even the finishers seperated into two groups of 3 at the finish.
Results:
13th Brownie @ 21 secs
20th Jack @ 1.31
28th Troy @ 1.52
30th Graham @ 2.34
34th Steve @ 3.01
47th Bob @10.09
Troys view:
So too much warm up and too much on the front(ish) I endeed up doing 70 miles today with 30 of those at 177 bpm average........;-)
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Race 1 - Rockingham Valley circuit.
A group of 15 riders including our Paul Brown formed and used their handicap to the full and stayed away, in the sprint Brownie managed to Grab 4th to get the first points for the new official plumz team, superb.
Troy, Graham, Bob and Steve all found the pace and Bringhurst hill a bit heavy and were hoovered up by Jacks group (pictured) who worked well and were themselves not caught by scratch but could not do enough
4 Paul Brown Numplumz Mountain Bikers
18 Jack Peterson Numplumz Mountain Bikers
33 Gregg Payne Rockingham Forest Wheelers
41 Steve Giles Numplumz Mountain Bikers
43 Graham Dickens Numplumz Mountain Bikers
46 Troy Rollason Numplumz Mountain Bikers
DNF Bob Mitchell
Aston Hill Downhill Race
well that was hard it turned out to be quite a huge event there there was race teams everywere even from afar as france (stupid Frenchy's and there Tomac sponsored bikes) haha I had a great day after an eventful morning with the car battery flat and no cash machines having cash my dad forgetting the camera so there is no evidence of the day sorry, but when we finally got thre after changin cars, i only managed to get 2 practice runs in also after tryin to set up my bike without testin on the track but as soon as i got my first timed run down with the bike feeling good i put down a 1.57.7 which put me in 7th with ben following behind with a 1.59.4 in 8th, later on after a bit more food and caffiene drinks we set of for our final timed run i had a good start and down into the technical natural feel rooty forest everything just felt so much smoother and sadley it was the final run as i was just getting to enjoy the bone dry dusty track my final time to end the day was a 1.53.3 to take 6th place and ben improved by a 1.56.6 but still in his cat he finished the day with 16th which he isnt happy with but for our first ever downhill race i think we both done quite good and amazing amount of fun...
Black Park - West Drayton MBC
Myself and tom travelled to Black park country park near slough to race in the open mens catagory today. It was a lovely warm day with some fantastic raceing tacking place. Eight laps of 2.5 miles meant a fast and furious race. It was the first time i used my new carbon giant so i wanted it to be a good one. After a good start myself and tom had a good placeing in the pack and the great conditions meant some fast laps. Sadly tom had a meeting with a tree after the 2nd lap which caused him to stop raceing although he is now okay just fashioning a few cuts. After 2 hours 10minutes i finished 23rd overall. Great race and deffently one to be repeated next year
23....8.....02:10:43..00:24:05..38...RICHARD JONES./.
.....................................00:17:21..00:15:25..00:15:36..00:16:01..00:16:30..00:16:58..00:16:48..00:16:04
dnf...2.....00:35:22............39...TOM WRIGHT./.Numplumz/Pitsford Cycles
.....................................00:19:03..00:16:19
Gorrick Spring Series Rd 1
Gorrick Spring Series Rd 2.
Bigring and Miss Medium Ring done good.
Bigring and Miss Medium Ring done good.
It would seem Lloyd led fro a lap then got overhauled for a fine second, supermasters is a tough race cat.
Hollie again showed skills beyond her years, despit some tree hugging for the cameras, and put in a great lap time.
Infact her lap time would have led the open female class, and had her second in the master female class...infact it would have put her 3rd in the fun MALE class to.
Superb.
Full ResultsThetford Winter series Rd 4
Full Results
The woods were full of Plumz riders.
The woods were full of Plumz riders.
Brownie, Stu, Pilch, Dave, Gregg and Jack (pictured) as well as camera shy Rich, Tom, Lloyd, Hollie and Bob all hit the dry trails of Thetford.
Oh the joy of being gridded, holding 3rd in the series I was called up to the line to get a front row start, and dave joined alongside on his Cotic Singlespeed.
The gun went and The first wheel to show was Daves, Yes he lead a winter series race for ohh at least 3 seconds, and was about 3rd into the first corner and about 50th out of it as the pack hit the big gears on the downhill section.
Me I was 3rd behind the 4 hour vet 1st and 2nd overall guys, the chaces of staying with them were remote, so as I eased back before the first singletrack about 10 riders shot past. But one of them wasn't Lloyd as usual. Settling down to a fast but pretty lonely lap, loving the fast singletrack (read and weep 2 hr boys) I got caried away.
Every thetford race BigRing has got the fastest lap of the day.....not this time I was on a mission and went for it. when Gregg came past towards the end of the 2nd lap and pulled a away I started to implode....not the best plan. lloyd finally joined us as i caught Gregg up a few laps later, Gregg then slipped back and Lloyd pulled away, back to a quiet race just hanging on this time, that was tough. (what a crap write up hey!)
Results stuff:
Laps - Position in class - Rider - laps
3 1 02:01:59 Hollie Bettles 00:37:40 00:40:53 00:43:25
4 7th 02:33:44 Richard Jones 00:35:18 00:37:13 00:39:05 00:42:07
4 61st 02:39:21 Tom Wright 00:38:41 00:39:43 00:40:12 00:40:43
3 75th 01:52:29 Stewart Knubley 00:34:54 00:36:47 00:40:46
4 19th 02:31:34 Paul Brown 00:36:44 00:36:57 00:38:26 00:39:24
4 33rd 02:41:26 Bob Mitchell 00:36:44 00:40:18 00:44:26 00:39:56
7 6th 04:04:57 Lloyd Bettles 00:33:38 00:36:27 00:34:23 00:35:09 00:35:20
00:35:20 00:34:38
7 15th 04:22:23 Gregg Payne 00:34:03 00:33:41 00:34:51 00:37:51 00:40:11
00:41:48 00:39:55
7 5th 04:15:11 Jack Peterson 00:32:25 00:34:50 00:35:45 00:37:26 00:37:28
00:38:25 00:38:49
6 17th 03:58:18 Troy Rollason 00:36:05 00:37:39 00:38:39 00:40:39 00:42:48
00:42:26
6 21st 04:05:03 Dave Gardner 00:38:08 00:38:39 00:40:04 00:40:48 00:44:19
00:43:04
Wahay got the fastest lap - But look at that run of consistent lap times after his easy start from Lloyd, thats how to do it. Watch out boys Hollies after you!
Final Vets 4Hr series points.
| 1 | 1 | Paul Ashby | Fat Birds CC | 150 | 150 | 150 | 450 | |
| 2 | 20 | John Fettis | Team F.All | 145 | 145 | 145 | 435 | |
| 3 | 24 | Jack Peterson | Numplumz | 130 | 140 | 130 | 400 | |
| 4 | 36 | Paul West | Shred Magazine / Endura | * | 135 | 140 | 104 | 379 |
| 5 | 6 | Alan Coldray | Team Milton Keynes | 120 | 130 | * | 125 | 375 |
| 6 | 9 | Simon LITTLE | Chelmer Cycles | 110 | 120 | 120 | 350 | |
| 7 | 3 | Paul Facer | SWRC | 108 | 106 | 130 | 344 | |
| 8 | 42 | Russell Rout | 115 | 108 | * | 120 | 343 | |
| 9 | 18 | Dave Gardner | Numplumz Singlespeed | 98 | 94 | 135 | 327 | |
| 10 | 19 | Troy Rollason | Numplumz | * | 96 | 125 | 94 | 315 |
Mawddach Goldrush Challenge
Jack and me set out for deepest darkest Wales on Sunday to take part in quite a unique event, for a start it is organised by people who have nothing to do with MTB or cycling. But the Rotary club of Mawddach put on this event for its 2nd year and it was run and organised very efficiantly all day from signing on to putting on a bus for spectators, supplying bin bags for dirty washing and goody bags for all competitors.
The course was based around the old Red Bull route which i have "raced" before and havent really enjoyed it but whoever designed this course needs a pat on the back as it raced really well, there were some long stretches of fire road but that made sure all competitors were spaced well out and congestion on the technical bits did not exsist which was the major fault of other races there. All the fire roads led to grin inducing down hills or technical traverses along the side of the valley but saying that the fire roads were a blast as well, most of which pushed the speed up over 25mph and the last one hit nearly 35 mph if your dangly bits were big enough, oh yeah and as it was in Wales there was a bit of climbing involved, over 400m per lap which along with the weather (rain,sleet,hail,and sun) made for a very interesting race.
The start was interesting because when you signed on you were given a timing chip, this allowed you to start when you liked between 10- 10.30 am which meant you were really racing against the clock not the people, like an off road endurance timetrial and the winner is whoever records the fastest time.
My race went well both me and Jack ambled up to the start line about 10.05 and set off up the opening climb and that was the last i see of Jack as i seemed to have good legs and made my way through the early starters, it seemed strange to be in a race with no one to race against the only thing i could do was to concentrate on catching everyone i saw which went to plan for the rest of the race. Rob Oakes kept me company for a couple of laps which also kept the speed up and we were both at our limits on the climbs but as the last lap started i upped the pace a bit more on the first climb and Rob dropped back which gave me a boost because Rob got the better of me for much of last year in the Nationals so it was pleasing to see him dissapearing backwards and with only 4 weeks to the first 2009 National gives me an idea to the form im in.The rest of the lap hurt quite a bit as i tried to keep the pace high hoping that i could reach the finish before 2hrs 30, i knew last years winning time was 2 hrs 41 so to do it would put me high up the leader board, there was a few scary moments on the last rock strewn downhill as i pushed harder still but was rewarded with a time of 2hrs 29m 40s. Jack after nearly completeing 2 solid laps broke his chain on the last downhill (how???only Jack) and by the time he'd found the chain again was too cold to try and fix it to carry on so retreated to the cafe for coffee and CAKE !!.
I finished my race in 1st for my catagorie (30-39) i also recorded the fastest lap but was beaten into 2nd overall by elite racer Jonathon Pugh.
I would like to thank the organisers for a top day out, this event will continue to grow. In the first year it saw 60 competitors this year it was 200, it really is a different approach to racing with its less formal start and laid back approach. I for one will definately return next year.
full results here http://www.blacksheepsports.co.uk/public/results.aspx?raceid=698
The course was based around the old Red Bull route which i have "raced" before and havent really enjoyed it but whoever designed this course needs a pat on the back as it raced really well, there were some long stretches of fire road but that made sure all competitors were spaced well out and congestion on the technical bits did not exsist which was the major fault of other races there. All the fire roads led to grin inducing down hills or technical traverses along the side of the valley but saying that the fire roads were a blast as well, most of which pushed the speed up over 25mph and the last one hit nearly 35 mph if your dangly bits were big enough, oh yeah and as it was in Wales there was a bit of climbing involved, over 400m per lap which along with the weather (rain,sleet,hail,and sun) made for a very interesting race.
The start was interesting because when you signed on you were given a timing chip, this allowed you to start when you liked between 10- 10.30 am which meant you were really racing against the clock not the people, like an off road endurance timetrial and the winner is whoever records the fastest time.
My race went well both me and Jack ambled up to the start line about 10.05 and set off up the opening climb and that was the last i see of Jack as i seemed to have good legs and made my way through the early starters, it seemed strange to be in a race with no one to race against the only thing i could do was to concentrate on catching everyone i saw which went to plan for the rest of the race. Rob Oakes kept me company for a couple of laps which also kept the speed up and we were both at our limits on the climbs but as the last lap started i upped the pace a bit more on the first climb and Rob dropped back which gave me a boost because Rob got the better of me for much of last year in the Nationals so it was pleasing to see him dissapearing backwards and with only 4 weeks to the first 2009 National gives me an idea to the form im in.The rest of the lap hurt quite a bit as i tried to keep the pace high hoping that i could reach the finish before 2hrs 30, i knew last years winning time was 2 hrs 41 so to do it would put me high up the leader board, there was a few scary moments on the last rock strewn downhill as i pushed harder still but was rewarded with a time of 2hrs 29m 40s. Jack after nearly completeing 2 solid laps broke his chain on the last downhill (how???only Jack) and by the time he'd found the chain again was too cold to try and fix it to carry on so retreated to the cafe for coffee and CAKE !!.
I finished my race in 1st for my catagorie (30-39) i also recorded the fastest lap but was beaten into 2nd overall by elite racer Jonathon Pugh.
I would like to thank the organisers for a top day out, this event will continue to grow. In the first year it saw 60 competitors this year it was 200, it really is a different approach to racing with its less formal start and laid back approach. I for one will definately return next year.
full results here http://www.blacksheepsports.co.uk/public/results.aspx?raceid=698
Thetford Winter series Rd 2
Good race - full results
Fastest laps table again then and difference between fastest and slowest laps.
12 of us out there again was cool , hopefully I didn't miss anyone
| | Fastest Lap | Slow-fast |
| BigRing | 37:12 | 11:11 |
| Jack | 38:29 | 3:33 |
| Stew | 42:33 | 2:41 |
| Rich | 41:22 | 2:23 |
| Brad | 42:33 | 9:05 |
| Troy | 43:55 | 6:34 |
| Dave | 44:55 | 3:57 |
| Brownie | 47:43 | 1:39 |
| Tom | 46:02 | 9:25 |
| Gray | 45:04 | 4:01 |
| Bob | 46:31 | 3:00 |
| Hollie | 50:41 | 6:19 |
This is listed in the same order as round 1 (except for Troy replacing Gregg) so you can see if you improved from then, BigRing again is Mr speedy although he lost the will to live on the last lap letting the old git go by ;-)
Great ride from young Richard, flying faster than a speeding Stu and keeping it consistent to the line as well. Hollie well she is unbeatable at the moment ;-)
Round 3 will be interesting then , see who eats all the pies over Christmas
BC report and pics will be here:- http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/site/BC/mtb/EventReports2008/20081207_whyte_enduro_thetford.asp
so how many pictures have you found of us lot then?
Thetford Winter series Rd 3
Battle of the Iken Somme
Round 3 at a good new venue, destroyed by a monsoon day of biblical proportions.
But here are the results
Quick results of note: with laps 2 hrs:
1st Hollie 00:52:57 01:03:01
5th Richard Jones 00:40:31 00:45:33 00:54:24
27th Stu Knubley 00:44:27 00:48:04 00:54:49
Vets
16th Paul Brown 00:49:41 00:50:37 00:55:30
19th Bob Mitchell 00:48:43 00:52:12 00:56:54
3rd Lloyd Bettles 00:35:47 00:42:45 00:47:17 00:50:02 00:49:21
9th Gregg payne 00:39:11 00:47:11 00:53:11 00:55:37 00:56:42
Vets
4th Dave Gardner 00:40:55 00:52:08 00:56:09 00:57:23 01:00:20
6th
Great rides from all those above, I bet Dave and
Watch out Brownie Bobs catching you.
And me well……
20th
Well I messed that up good and proper didn’t I.
Felt good going into this race, to be honest, decided on the singlespeed because its flatland and knew it would be very muddy.
But then like a twonk had too big a gear on the bike for the conditions. 32-16 can twiddle all day round here, but not in porridge.
Piss poor really, I should have taken a couple of spare sprockets with me, and definitely should have done a pre-lap just to see how bad it was.
Should have taken geared bike? What’s the point in having lots of nice bikes if you can’t be bothered to take them to races is another good point !!
On the face of it, why after coming in at 1hr30 in 3rd place did I pack in…..
Well I could have walked sections, struggled on but there was no way I was going to put my back through another 2 ½ hours of that hell.
Thetford Winter series Rd 1
resultsfrom Timelaps
Thetford Winter series Rd 1: Well done to all the plumz racers there but especially Hollie who wins again, Lloyd 3rd , and Singlespeed Dave gets a superb 15th.
Well it was a pleasure to be out riding on Sunday, 50 miles of fast flowing dry singletrack with as much grip as you liked. You could throw your bike around like it was on rails and there were several sections that were super swoopy. Ace.
Oh yes, the race, knew there was a reason we were all there. Well I let antone else put up there versions but here’s mine.
After 2 mins silence, it was I thought a madder than normal start, even though it was a long section of double track the fact that it was downhill meant there were even more fast starters than usual up front. The girls had been sent of like hares in front and we just caught them at the first tight singletrack. Almost dead stop as me and MrRing eased up.
By the time we got by the track was deserted, Lloyd sped off as I settled into a heart rate I thought I could manage for 4 hrs. It was great just being able to ride the deserted track as fast as you wanted, but unless you see who the riders are up front early on you have no idea where you stand in the race. (looking at lap times I was 7th for 2 hrs)
2 hours in an it finally got a bit busier as I caught riders but the empty track had meant no real let up and the legs were screaming, the 2hr Vet leaders came by and I tucked in behind them easily I even followed John McAndrew who was 2nd for ¾ of a lap and passed him on the last climb but then had to force myself to ease off; two hrs to go I kept saying to myself, but this was fun.
I thought I’d blown it, the Lactate was screaming in my legs so I decided to do whole sections in the middle ring to spin a lot more. This seemed to work and after a slower lap, the 2hr racers left the track and it was back to blasting on the clearing super singletrack.
(At this point apparently I’d passed a
Starting the last lap I lapped Gregg and still felt good, so with nothing to lose I pulled the trigger and gave it everything. You can usually notice riders who you are lapping, they come back to you real easy, but I love the thrill of seeing someone slowly appear; you know they are on your lap just by their speed. First one down was Milton Keynes rider Lee Goodman in the under 40’s he woke up as I got to his back wheel but then shouted some expletives as I kicked the big ring up the climb and left him for dead, feels good ;-)
Then another rider appeared, I shadowed him in the singletrack then again just eased away, this was different though I never knew it at the time. I’d just passed Paul Simmons of Koxx/Thetford racing to grab 5th and then put another 90 seconds into him. The legendary last push is still there, and if only I’d known as I was only 100 secs behind 3rd place at the end and my last 3 laps were all faster than theirs.
Bring on Round 2!
Here's each riders fastest lap, just shows you Tuesday night guys that the fast guys on the road don’t mean nothing when it gets twisty and muddy. I also put in the difference between each riders fastest and slowest lap. This shows up riders who go off to fast and then blow, and those that can be consistent. I’m well pleased with my difference for a 4hr blast. Gregg certainly found his limit ;-)
Fastest laps table
| | Fastest Lap | Slow-fast |
| BigRing | 31:34 | 4:00 |
| Jack | 33:41 | 2:45 |
| Stew | 35:10 | 3:23 |
| Rich | 35:17 | 4:56 |
| Brad | 35:41 | 5:13 |
| Gregg | 35:44 | 15:34 |
| Dave | 37:10 | 5:43 |
| Brownie | 37:31 | 1:29 |
| Tom | 38:08 | 2:30 |
| Gray | 38:30 | 2:48 |
| Bob | 39:11 | 3:56 |
| Hollie | 41:28 | 5:59 |
Should be loads of pictures out there too.
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